Hi everyone!

I found a pretty good article on CNN about the H1N1 vaccine and pregnancy. Please reply if you have heard anything else about the vaccine and possible side effects.



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I was just reading this and had a thought (as I have been going back and forth about whether to get the shot). What about the pneumonia vaccine. It seems that what we are really afraid of is not pregnant women dying "of" the swine flu. Just the swine flu doesn't kill people (not that I've heard -please correct if I am wrong). We are afraid of dehydration (from nausea and vomiting) or pneumonia. Well there is a pneumonia vaccine and it's been around for years. I'm going to go home and research that a bit. But if people are pregnant and afraid of getting swine flu because it's so new and untested, maybe considere the pneumonia vaccine (if that is recommened for pregnant women). I'm going to look into this, but I'd love to hear thoughts.
I *believe* that the pneumonia vaccine is a vaccine against a certain type of pneumonia (caused by the bacteria pneumococcus) and won't protect against all types. Here's a link that explains it: http://www.medicinenet.com/pneumococcal_vaccination/article.htm
8 months pregnant...you couldn't pay me a million dollars to get this vaccine or any others for that matter. There are over 100 different strands of the flu, none of which you can be guaranteed safe from with a vaccine, so why should I put that crap in my body, and more importantly in my baby. I just had the flu all this last week. It could have been H1N1...I will never know because I didn't rush to the hospital and make a big deal out of it. I tried to stay as hydrated as possible and in bed. Guess what? I LIVED! Amazing. The flu doesn't kill most people. I think people that die from the flu have compromised immune systems to begin with. CNN, and all other news channels are so pro-vaccine...it makes me wonder where the funding is coming from?
I don't know if anyone saw, but there is a cheerleader somewhere that had a severe and permanent reaction to the regular flu shot! I saw it a few weeks ago, but if you know the story, imagine what that could do to a pregnant woman, or her baby? Scary.
I agree we don't know everything about everything. And each person should have a right to decide for himself/herself. And you raise questions and doubt, but questions and doubts should be based in some sort of preponderance of evidence...not merely fear and the fluke news story.

Although the flu does mutate a bit year to year, there's NO evidence to show the H1N1 flu has yet mutated--and vaccines DO generally work for a majority of those who get them. So yes, there are no guarantees, but the evidence points to the fact it does work for most people.

What 'crap' would you be putting in your body? There is nothing in vaccines that has been shown to be dangerous in the given amounts. And while I'm thrilled you came through healthy despite the flu, chances of serious problems FROM the flu (for preggos) is MUCH MUCH higher than chances of serious vaccine related problems. Pregnancy itself does lower one's immune system--this is why those with autoimmune problems often go into remission during pregnanc...their immune system is on low vs. hyperdrive. It's part of the deal of being pregnant, so yes our immunity is generally lower while pregnant than it is when not pregnant. This means a lot of pregnant women have a higher chance of complications. Fever is NOT good for a fetus. If the flu leads to bacterial pneumonia then the only way out is with antibiotics which are also not the most ideal for fetus. Etc...etc.

You said the flu doesn't kill most people...neither do vaccines...in fact the flu kills MORE people than vaccines have ever hurt.
Clearly you are pro-vaccine...I am not. Not for me or my children, and that's ok. That's doesn't make you or I a bad person.
I have done over a years worth of research and do not feel comfortable giving myself or my children vaccines. This is a HUGE and controvercial topic which I could write pages and pages on, for now I will opt out of that. I don't think you were trying to start a debate. If yes, let me know. I will be glad to talk about it.
All I have to say, is make sure you get research based information and please don't trust the media for all of your facts. Your last line sticks with me. "The flu kills more people than vaccines have ever hurt." I don't think you can accurately say that at all.
I'm not "pro-vaccine" ... I'm pro-science and pro-health. Of course when there is debate as to what the science shows is ideal for health...then we will obviously make different choices. That's fine. I agree this has nothing to do with 'good' vs. 'bad' person...just different points of view on what the studies/science actually shows evidence for.

I DO love a good debate, but honestly I've got plate full and probably shouldn't even be taking the time to respond to this discussion at all :-)
If you are pro-science and pro-health, how come you haven't mentioned these facts?

1. The multi-dose H1N1 monovalent vaccine contains 24.5 MCG of Thimerosal per DOSE, not total. That's ETHYL mercury, not METHYL mercury.

2. Studies observing the results of SUBCUTANEOUS injection (not digestion) of ETHYL mercury are basically nonexistant. IIRC, a couple scientists tried to find out how it works by using a SIMILAR material on mice, but it didn't shed any light on the situation. That's it. That's all we know. Thimerosal was grandfathered past FDA regulations.

3. The live-attenuated virus is administered as a NASAL spray. Pregnant women, children under 2 years of age, nursing mothers and others with certain complications or chronic illnesses are contraindicated, per the manufacturer.

4. Those who receive the live-virus NASAL spray (manufactured by Medimmune and the first of 4 vaccine products available for H1N1) can be contagious and spread the flu for up to 21 days, with 8 days being the average.

5. Scientists in Australia just found out that a severe immune deficiency, called IgG2 deficiency, plays a role in secondary complications and higher rates of mortality in pregnant women. IgG2 deficiency basically blinds the immune system (TH2) so for example, a bacterial lung infection can sneak up on the body without being fought, causing severe illness and possibly death. Guess what? It's testable and treatable and seems to be related to a Zinc deficiency during fetal development.

6. Another guess what? Those with this IgG2 deficiency also have a lower 'uptake' rate for vaccinations. That makes complete sense doesn't it? If your body can't respond to illness, why would it respond to illness/adjuvants injected subcutaneously? So the very people who are getting sick and/or dying from this flu might not even respond to the vaccine.

7. Obama signed this pandemic an emergency on Friday. Squalene adjuvant is now available to be distributed. If, after researching, you do not want to remain vaccine free, at the very least request a single-dose, Squalene-free syringe from your doctor.

Take it from the horses mouth. Here are the vaccine inserts. They were created by the manufacturers, approved by the FDA and are packaged with each vaccine. If your doctor won't give you the actual copy and/or won't discuss the insert with you-get a new doctor. Your body, your choice. (Or your child's body for that matter).


As for pro-science, pro-health comments on non-vaccine aspects:

1. Vitamin D plays a huge role in the H1N1 issue. A vit D deficiency represses microphage activity, which can definitely overload the body and reduce immune response. Taking a high-quality Vitamin D3 supplement, getting 15 minutes of direct sunlight and eating healthy foods daily can help fight against Vitamin D deficiency.

2. Clinical studies have shown that elderberry binds with the H1N1 virus (this is good, BTW, as since it binds with the foreign substance, it cannot 'enter' your cell and replicate, hence it prevents infection).
BTW, a few awesome higlights, direct from the actual inserts:

CSL's single-dose, mercury free shot:

"Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine is an inactivated influenza virus vaccine indicated for active immunization of persons ages 18 years of age and older against influenza disease caused by pandemic (H1N1) 2009 virus.
This indication is based on the immune response elicited by the seasonal trivalent Influenza Virus Vaccine manufactured by CSL (AFLURIA®). CSL’s Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine and AFLURIA are manufactured by the same process. There have been no controlled clinical studies demonstrating a decrease in influenza disease after vaccination with AFLURIA (see Clinical Studies [14])."

So they are saying vaccine #2 is good b/c vaccine #1 is good, because vaccine #2 was made the same way as vaccine #1. Oh, but then they say that vaccine #1 has never been proven to reduce the flu.

Here is Medimmune's live virus nasal spray:

"Do not administer Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine Live, Intranasal to children <24 months of age because of increased risk of hospitalization and wheezing. (5.1)

Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine Live, Intranasal should not be administered to any individuals with asthma or children < 5 years of age with recurrent wheezing because of the potential for increased risk of wheezing post vaccination.

ADVERSE REACTIONS information is based on studies conducted with seasonal trivalent Influenza Vaccine Live, Intranasal (FluMist) manufactured by MedImmune."

Antiviral agents active against influenza A and/or B: Do not administer Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine Live, Intranasal until 48 hours after antiviral cessation. Antiviral agents should not be administered until 2 weeks after (e.g. Tamiflu!) Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine Live, Intranasal administration unless medically necessary.
-----------------------USE IN SPECIFIC POPULATIONS------------------------
• Safety and effectiveness of Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine Live, Intranasal have not been studied in pregnant women or nursing mothers. (8.1, 8.3)
WOW...that was some great info. A lot of that I didn't know. Thank you so much for sharing!!
RE: points 1 and 2. There are a number of epidemiological and clinical studies that show infinitesimally low levels of risk when injecting thimerosal-containing vaccines into babies. (Unfortunately, there is not a lot of evidence for pregnant women, so this where the decision became a little difficult for me. And while it's nice to think you could find an H1N1 vaccine around that isn't coming from a multidose vial, good luck getting it before the peak of flu season hits.) In case anyone is confused, methyl mercury is the inorganic form of mercury that accumulates in fish and ethyl mercury is the organic form of mercury = thimerosal (also known as thiomersal). It is a good point (#2) that the *mechanisms* of ethyl mercury's effects on the mammalian body are poorly known. But that does not invalidate epidemiological and clinical data on humans who have received vaccines with thimerosal, which show no risk.

Here's a nice review paper if anyone wants to start poking around for themselves: Vaccine, 2004, volume 23(3): pages 281-2. Go to PubMed and find some review papers (there are many), which are good jumping-off points for looking at the actual research papers.

"2. Clinical studies have shown that elderberry binds with the H1N1 virus (this is good, BTW, as since it binds with the foreign substance, it cannot 'enter' your cell and replicate, hence it prevents infection)."

Could you please give a link to this information. I'd like to read more about it.

I also want to add, that since starting a daily routine of pro-biotics and vitamin D for my family in addition to our regular vitamins, I have seen huge improvements in some "minor" things that were plaguing us. EX: I HAD a 2 yr old with an unexplained diaper rash that would flare for seemingly no reason. It was horribly itchy/painful for her and nothing I did could control it. It is not yeast, and we tried everything from diet, to detergents, to different diapers to stop it. But 48 hrs after we started the extra supplements it's completely gone and has been for 2 weeks. This is the longest her bottom has been clear since she was 8 months old.

What this tells me, is that I have been successful in aiding her body's immune system and that is the best protection I believe I can give her.
a quick google turned up the article that guggie refers to above:
"Elderberry flavonoids bind to and prevent H1N1 infection in vitro,"
Phytochemistry, Volume 70, Issue 10, July 2009, Pages 1255-1261
Bill Roschek Jr., Ryan C. Fink, Matthew D. McMichael, Dan Li, Randall S. Alberte

you will probably want to look at some summaries (there are many, just google elderberry and H1N1), as mass spectrometry does not make for very fun reading for most of us :)

i would caution you, though, that the purity and concentration of the extracts used in this paper were likely FAR better than anything you are going to be able to purchase off the shelf. these are interesting findings, but unlikely to be applicable to flu prophylaxis anytime soon.



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